rozumiem, że temat budzi duże emocje, ale dawno nie widziałem tak prostackiej i pozbawionej szacunku dla drugiej osoby wypowiedzi.

Panowie zwolennicy Narayana Mahraja posluchajcie mnie przez chwile i zastanowcie sie
Dziwicie sie ze dla bhaktow ktorzy uwazaja ISKCON za swoja sange NM jest postacia kontrowersyjna?
Inicjownie uczniow aktywnie dzialajacego guru jest wbrew ETYKIECIE VAISZNAWOW!!!!!
Nie bagatelizujcie tego
Do Srila Prabhupady tez przychodzili uczniowie innych guru proszac o inicjacje lecz On tego nie robil.
Tak wiec czyz nie jest to kontrowersyjne?
I nawet to ze byl obrazany nie usprawiedliwia Jego dzialania.
Dlaczego to robi ???
Moze ktos z Was ma jakas oswiecajaca odpowiedz?

GS: I understood from our talk yesterday that you only wanted to ask two things: Vinod Vani about her statements at Visvarupa Mahotsava and Jadurani and Karta about their pet names.

BP: And I thought Jadurani and Karta should also be asked whether they were capturing or converting other ladies by actively preaching and canvassing.

GS: Regarding the pet names, I'd like to explain my understanding. He gave them the pet names. They didn't ask for new names. The implication of the critics is that the new names indicate some sort of gross or subtle initiation. I think that's the real question. He gave them the names; I don't think we can question that. I think the real question is how they understand it and how they perceive it.

PP: The criticism I heard was Jadurani to Syamarani, meaning from Dwaraka-lila to Vrindavan.

?: So there are two parts to it. One is the conception that there is some sort of reinitiation, not reinitiation but additional initiation, taking place, some sort of spiritual bond.

BP: And also a question about disloyalty regarding the name Prabhupada gave them.

[Jadurani dasi, Karta dasi, and Vinod Yani dasi enter.]

Karta dasi (K): May I say something? I was the first person to whom he gave a pet name. It was due to a very simple thing. My name Karta means doer or creator. It is a masculine name. When I first came to Narayana Maharaja years ago and he asked me what my name was, I said Karta. It was interesting for him to hear this name and he laughed and said humorously, "Swami Maharaja had so many disciples that he ran out of names. I would like to call you by another name."

It wasn't anything. We weren't meeting him. We didn't have a relationship. It wasn't really based on anything. It was just because it's funny for him, who is familiar with the language, to call me, "Doer." Like, "Doer, can you come here?" Or, Creator, come and see me."

It was a light meeting, kind of natural. We were not establishing our relationship based on something that I understand about him in the spiritual realm or anything. So he said, in a rather light way, that he will call me another name.

It wasn't until about a year later that he said, "You know, I think I'll call you like this." So he said my name and then, "Will people understand?" And I said, "It will be only for us. Why should it be for anybody else? It's not relevant to anybody else." So that's what happened. It was light.

Of course, our relationship became close, so it might be taken in another way. But it's only an affectionate way of addressing. He actually said, "Gaura Priya Karta." So it's not even replacing. Also, it means a relationship. Like Krsna has many relationships with different devotees. He's Yasoda-nandana, Devaki-nandana, Nanada-nandana, according to the relationship He has with His devotees. In the same way I see it like, well, if you have a siksa-guru (and I take him as siksa-guru), I have a certain way of relating to him. It wasn't something thought up, or an imposition, or adding anything. It was just natural.

TKG: There is another point. Many among those who visit him have names which apparently have nothing to do with Vrindavan-lila. Was that the issue? Did you in this way get your "service name"?

K: Of course not.

BP: I would like to know. How many of the people who go and see him has he given names to?

K: As far as I know, only Jadurani and me.

TKG: After 6 years, all this commotion is about Narayana Maharaja giving pet names to two matajis. Unbelievable!

BP: I just want to add one little thing. At least for myself when I see Karta or Jadurani, I call them Karta or Jadurani.

PP: Do you have anything to say, Jadurani?

Jadurani: You all know I did the painting of Radha-Syamasundara. Sometimes people give nicknames to others on the basis of something done. Like Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura had one sannyasi who had some name, Gaura Narayana, or some name with Gaura, and he renamed him Badri Narayana because he visited Badrinath. It was a temporary name in relation to a particular situation.

So in relation to the painting, he gave me a name because I was serving Radha-Syamasundara or Radha-Syama. Radharani is Syamarani, the beloved of Krsna. So that service got me the nickname. Most of the times he calls me Jadurani and sometimes he calls me Syamarani.

Prabhupada also had a nickname for me, which was Sadhurani. Prabhupada told me, back in the late sixties, at 26th 2nd Avenue, that "So many of my Godbrothers nicknamed each other different names." It's quite common. So it is not unstandard. Also, Prabhupada's name, which he was given by his diksa-guru, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, was Abhay Caranaravinda, and then his Godbrothers gave him another name, Bhaktivedanta, which was further established at the time of his sannyasa initiation.

So it's not uncommon in our line, whether it's a nickname or a real name. It has nothing to do with reinitiation or disloyalty to one's diksa-guru.

Also on two occasions, one in New Jersey, when Prabhupada was convalescing from that heart attack, and on one other occasion, Prabhupada told me, "When you go back to Godhead, you'll be a servant of Radharani." I did not then have the interest to inquire further. But I understand that Prabhupada wants me to go back to Godhead in Vrindavan. And Narayana Maharaja told me that your Prabhupada wants you to go not to Dvaraka, but to Vrindavan. So it's all in connection with Srila Prabhupada.

We're talking in the Prabhupada Centennial about Prabhupada consciousness and being more in tune with Prabhupada. Perhaps not everything that we do now in service or in our zones or in relation to disciples has been written to us in a letter from Srila Prabhupada or in his books. But we may nevertheless feel that Prabhupada is inspiring us to act. When we give Bhagavatam class we often pray. "Please give me the words so I may give this class." So my heartfelt conviction is that Prabhupada instructed me to go to Narayana Maharaja. And if Narayana Maharaja did give me a nickname or try to sway me to Vrindavan, it is coming from none other than Srila Prabhupada. How is it being disloyal? I never met anybody who has given me so much love and faith and appreciation and heartfelt feeling for Srila Prabhupada as Srila Narayana Maharaja.

Dzieki Prabhu za dobra Radhe
Niestety juz zaczalem, tak wiec pozwol ze skoncze:
Problem jest taki ze Ci panowie mysla ze w Iskconie nie ma autentycznych guru co samo w sobie jest denerwujace
Do pewnego stopnia rozumiem tych ktorzy zostali opuszczeni przez np. Harikese
reszta jest wynikiem naucznia inteligentnych... zwolennikow NM ktorzy przyjezdzaja i zamiast twozyc swoje wlasne namahata to kradna bhaktow z iskconu to jest fakt tak dzieje w wielu miejscach .
Kiedy Damodar Swami przyjechal do polski to nie spedzil ani jednego dnia na ulicach tego kraju probujac nauczac (porownaj to np. do Indradyumny Swamiego) zamiast tego odwiedzal rozne poskie namahata i jaki jest tego rezultat wystarczy spojrzec na Szczecin
Dlatego Ci ktorzy wlozyli duzo wysilku w stworzenie towarzystwa bhaktow w Polsce maja prawo protestowac przeciwko takim dzialaniom
Wielkosc bhakty mozna oceniac po tym jak wiele uwarunkowanych dusz przemienil w bhaktow ,
a nie po tym ilu bhaktow przeciagnal z jednej sangi do drugiej !!!!!

[...] reszta jest wynikiem naucznia inteligentnych... zwolennikow NM ktorzy przyjezdzaja i zamiast twozyc swoje wlasne namahata to kradna bhaktow z iskconu to jest fakt tak dzieje w wielu miejscach [...]

Kiedy Damodar Swami przyjechal do polski to nie spedzil ani jednego dnia na ulicach tego kraju probujac nauczac (porownaj to np. do Indradyumny Swamiego)[...]

Dlatego Ci ktorzy wlozyli duzo wysilku w stworzenie towarzystwa bhaktow w Polsce maja prawo protestowac przeciwko takim dzialaniom [...]

Wielkosc bhakty mozna oceniac po tym jak wiele uwarunkowanych dusz przemienil w bhaktow , a nie po tym ilu bhaktow przeciagnal z jednej sangi do drugiej !!!!!

[...] stwierdzam ze NM inicjuje uczniow innch vaisznawow co jest wbrew etykiecie [...]

W światyniach codziennie podczas guru-pujy bhaktowie spiewają: ebe yaśa gusuk tribhuvana- "twoje chwały głoszone sa we wszystkich trzech swiatach". Pamietajmy, ze pieśń ta oryginalnie nie została napisana dla Śrila Prabhupada. Jest to pieśń wysławiająca guru- reprezentanta Kryszny. Bez wzgledu na to jaką ów guru posluguje sie organizacja, jest godzien chwały. Może nie być naszym guru, moze sie od naszego kompletnie różnic nastrojem itp. To nie ma jednak znaczenia. nalezy mu się szacunek i uznanie, a to co ma do powiedzenia jest godne uwagi, bo Kryszna przemawia przez niego.